POWIP Piece of Work In Progress

1. 

   Mike LaRoche
   November 13th, 2009 - 05:07

   But from someone who is followed by several people I respect, and who yuk-yuks it up on a regular basis as a “Conservative”, it’s beyond disheartening.
   Well said, Dahlhalla.

   Who is the culprit? Personally, I can’t stand those pseudo-sophisticate “hip” conservatives who take pleasure in mocking Glenn Beck’s religious beliefs. I’m not a Mormon myself (I was raised Catholic), but every Mormon I’ve ever known has been a decent person who has done nothing to deserve such hateful vitriol.

   Beck has done more for conservatism than any of those self-important twits ever have or will, and they know it. So to hell with every damn one of them, I say.

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2. 

   serr8d
   November 13th, 2009 - 06:05

   Glenn Beck’s story is a great story. Pulling away from his various addictions, he’s earned his berth. He’s earthy. And funny, funnier than Hannity, more earthy than Limbaugh.

   Check out dicentra’s Twitter exchange with a beckhater.

   (Oh, and please explain what is this handshake? A Mormon gangland thinger, maybe? I shot that May 18 2008, at the NRA Convention in Louisville; Beck was the keynote speaker at the Celebration of American Values Banquet. T’other guy is David Keene, NRA VP. Note Glenn’s cummerbund!)

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   • 

     Dahlhalla
     November 13th, 2009 - 14:46

     I’m not sure what that handshake is. If the other guy is a Temple-going dude, then there is a slight possibility it’s a Temple one. But those are supposed to be very secret despite everyone having access to all secrets everywhere on the internet.

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   • 

     Dahlhalla
     November 15th, 2009 - 02:26

     I just looked closer, and realized it’s not a handshake at all…it’s just the NRA guy doing something weird with his fingers. Also, Glenn must love that cummerbund, he wore it to the Correspondent’s dinner, too.

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3. 

   StickeeNotes
   November 13th, 2009 - 06:05

   The people who consider The Church of Latter-Day Saints to be controversial are the same folks who don’t know any Mormons. I grew up in a small town with a fair number of Mormons. The neighbors who lived across the street were Mormon and the only difference from any other family is that they had more kids than most. I went to school with (students and teachers) and played sports with Mormons. Heck, I even had a crush on a Mormon girl. They’re regular folks who usually tend to be nicer than most. Knowing their beliefs, I can’t say I agree with them, but I cannot deny that it works for many. Not every kid who is raised Mormon grows up to be perfect, but the vast majority become the type of people you want as your neighbor. I have deep respect for any faith that is family oriented and helps shape such kind, considerate and thoughtful individuals. When solid loving families becomes controversial, the problem is with the society at large and those who reflexively view all things traditional with disdain.

   Sadly, Con1 proves that ignorance is not the exclusive province of the left. However, I believe Con1 is still in the minority.

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4. 

   Tom Usher
   November 13th, 2009 - 06:27

   As a fervent, practicing Catholic (not the currently popular cafeteria kind of Catholicism, but the real thing) I have many disagreements with Mormons on theological issues. So what? It seems that in the end we are generally working towards the same basic results. “For he that is not against us is for us.” Mark 9:40

   We have a God given right to worship as we please, as long as our beliefs do not infringe on the rights of others. That’s where Islam seems to run into problems.

   As one that believes in this country as it was designed to function I say that we need to stick together and focus on the real enemies of freedom and not be sidetracked by the small minds that surround us. Using someones faith as a tool to disparage the validity of their political beliefs is a sign that we should knock the dust from our sandals and move on.

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5. 

   Enoch_Root
   November 13th, 2009 - 06:58

   There are many spiritual paths.

   And MOST of them lead to the same, the bery same place: the City on the Hill.

   God permits a plurality of faiths – why? I don’t know. I don’t expect to know. It is not for me to know.

   A newly widowed Alyssa Gillespie (James Shore’s wife) told me this, “I have little compassion for anyone over 40 who is not well on a spiritual path… there are thousands to choose from… those who do not choose… those who cannot pick one by the time they are well into adulthood are lost.”

   My recent experience of burying my very oldest and dearest friend has been rather enlightening, in that giving Glory to God can take many expressions. And as long as Humility and Charity are expressed, one may know they are living into their destiny – to ultimately reside with God Eternal.

   As a Catholic who loves his faith, I also admit Mormonism is a bit odd to my sensibilities – a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, I know – but nonetheless, the Christ tells us “by their fruits you will know them.” And I can say I have found the practicing Mormons I have known to be loving people. And the fallen-away Mormons excellent drinking buddies.

   What I do know if God does desire ultimately that the Body of Christ be unified – without fractures. And what I also know is that Mormonism may actually have more in common with Catholicism in this day and age than the bastardized and broken C of E. So, there’s that.

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6. 

   Dan Collins
   November 13th, 2009 - 07:06

   I agree entirely with Tom about this. I hope people find their salvation in their religious faith; to search for salvation in politics is a mug’s game.

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   • 

     Dahlhalla
     November 13th, 2009 - 14:54

     Yep. Tom’s point is, in a much more eloquent fashion, saying what I hoped to. Stick together. Stop being goddamn little kids who pick on others of your own Fach to get popular,and focus or real enemies.

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7. 

   Enoch_Root
   November 13th, 2009 - 07:09

   Oh – and I would also offer a word of encouragement: Catholics have been recipients of all manner of hate and targeted by bigots for ages here in the US – and every time I see some ignoramus attack Mother Church, I sit back and ask, “what is it about Her that they detest so? why the vitriol from the ‘intelligentsia’?” Then I feel encouraged – because she is not given to pop – She is ageless and pristine. She is the Lamp on the stand – reminding liars, cheats, murderers, devotees of the material world – that none of us gets out of here alive – she is unapologetic about the timelessness of Eternal Truth. So I smile, because She is doing her job – shedding light on all of God’s Creation. And sometimes Light burns – and the more one hides, the more intense the burn scars. She is doing Her job quite well – and none will prevail against her… 2000 years and going strong. Because She will not bend. And THAT is precisely why She is hated so. The sinner expects his willful creatureliness to prevail – but the point is to become small… and to hand one’s will over to the bidding of God. As some have the foretaste of Heaven on earth, others get a foretaste of hell. The hound of conscience, as St Catherine of Sienna would refer to it will not be silent – unless it is willfully killed. Let them gnash their teeth.

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8. 

   Dan Collins
   November 13th, 2009 - 07:22

   Well, this is distressing. Episcopal parishioners who welcomed woman when she worked for Planned Parenthood upset about her pro-life turn.

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   • 

     Tom Usher
     November 13th, 2009 - 08:02

     This is why the Anglican Church is coming apart at the seams. They seem to accept all beliefs at the exclusion of the truth. This is forcing members of their faith to question the very foundation of Anglicanism.

     Rome stands ready to accept them with open arms.

     In America, the United States Council of Catholic Bishops seems to be tumbling into the same political correctness trap that has befallen Anglicanism. While I must laud their actions regarding abortion and the health care bill, their subsequent support of the bill flies in the face of Catholic teaching. The Church supports subsidiartity and has worked vigorously against socialism while the American Bishops, at least their leadership, seem to be embracing the tenet of government control.

     I think that much like Anglicanism, the Catholic Church is beginning to splinter along the fault line of truth. A clear line in the sand is being drawn and all of us are going to be faced with some very important decisions about which way we will go. And I do mean all of us. The times that we live in are becoming much less gray; far more black and white. God will not try to trick us. Our decisions will be made in the blinding light of truth and we will be held accountable for them.

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9. 

   EauPureEtClaire
   November 13th, 2009 - 08:37

   Well, I know this is going to make me slightly the odd-man out here, but as a born-again Christian (we also regularly get accused of being crazy nutso), I think there are two strains of ecumenism we need to talk about here. One is o.k. with me. The other isn’t. Let me be clear: I am also a HUGE Beck fan. I think he’s one of the only people out there who really gets what’s going on in this country and has the courage to talk about it straight up. Thank God. LITERALLY, THANK GOD! Moreover, I am all over a constitutional ecumenism that says everyone is free to worship as they please in this county–as long as the way they worship doesn’t harm or threaten to harm anyone else. You BETCHA I’m all good with that perspective and encourage more of the same.

   That said, as an evangelical, born-again Christian, I’m not willing to whitewash over differences and say all paths lead to God. That’s just not what the Bible says, and any ecumenism that attempts to steer people in that direction gets an automatic rejection from me. While I know and genuinely love a lot of Mormons, I am aware that what they believe differs distinctly in important ways from my own faith. The New Testament–and the Old Testament interpreted in light of it–are pretty clear about who Christ is, why He came, and that we need to accept him for who He is in order to get to heaven. That’s not negotiable. Mormonism departs from scripture on these points in some very fundamental ways.

   As much as I adore Glenn, and as appreciative as I am of the fact that he’s doing more than anyone else right now to speak truth about what’s happening in our country, there are moments when he makes me cringe. He fairly regularly talks about Mormon theology on the air as if it’s part of ALL Christian theology. It’s not. What’s even more interesting is that sometimes his theology doesn’t quite line up with what the Mormon church actually teaches either. The confusion, created by what I suspect is a blend of Glenn’s earlier Catholic upbringing with his now Mormon faith, opens the way for an ecumenism that, frankly, just isn’t biblical. We can get into the truth of the Bible’s claims and the fairness of the implications of those claims in another thread. But the reality is, the claims are there, and Mormon theology contradicts them.

   Moreover, while everyone makes mistakes, and Christianity in general has PLENTY on the record over the centuries, let’s not sweep Mormonism’s under the carpet. That faith does indeed have violence in its history. But since Christianity must face its blunders, I think Mormonism’s should also be out in the open. Most notably, in 1857 Mormons murdered 120 of their own–unarmed men, women, and children–nearly the entire body of a wagon train from Arkansas. Known as the Mountain Meadow Massacre, this murder occurred because another group of Mormons didn’t want any witnesses to a blunder they’d made. The bodies of the dead were left rotting on the plains for about two years. Only seventeen children survived the event.

   Am I saying this to bash Mormonism? HECK NO. I’m saying it to be clear. Mormonism is not flawless. Nor is it traditional Christianity but rather a departure from it. Should Mormons be free to worship here in the U.S. according to their belief? YES, YES, YES! I can’t say that emphatically enough. The Constitution is a beautiful thing. But are Mormonism and traditional Christianity the same thing? That’s a different question altogether, and the standard used to answer it is not the Constitution but instead the Bible.

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   • 

     Enoch_Root
     November 13th, 2009 - 09:31

     EPEC – I want to be very clear – I was NOT intimating that all paths lead to God – there are several which absolutely do NOT in my estimation. What I am saying is that we (people inclined to seeking God) are all trying to get to the same place – no matter (for the most part) their particular bent.

     I am NOT saying that I agree with CS Lewis’ “mere Christian” concept. I am much more of the Tolkien variety Catholic – and yes that means I affirm She alone is Mother Church – with the Word and the Tradition that informs us. And She stands above Her offspring.

     I am NOT a relativist at all. And I do have concerns about the Mormon teachings. And I am not even confident it is even Christianity at all. My point was that the C of E with all of its equivocations is doomed – specifically because it has embraced erm pop culture and all of its trappings.

     Lewis himself warned his C of E brethren about the result of this movement towards pop. And no one paid particular attention.

     So, I think with regard to Mormonism, the best I can say is I stand with any faith that abhors Abortion and Euthanasia.

     So, please do not misunderstand – many of the Protestant sects disagree with me on these foundational issues of the Dignity of Life. Can they be said to be Christian? More Christian than, say, Mormonism?

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     • 

       EauPureEtClaire
       November 14th, 2009 - 16:53

       In response to your reply to my remarks, Enoch, let me clarify one point more…

       I’m all for standing with Mormons as FELLOW CITIZENS who abhor abortion, euthanisia, and, moreover, who hold particular reverence the importance of traditional family to society. In fact, I consider that I have a lot in common with Mormons in terms of basic principles and values.

       What’s more, I agree with you that there are many mainline Protestant sects who no longer hold in any way to what I hold dear as a Christian. I would therefore stand with a Mormon long before I’d stand with many mainline Protestants when it comes to fighting for what I believe important to the moral fiber and framework of our society.

       I simply can’t call Mormon’s Christian because they depart so substantially from the key teachings in the Bible.

       We’ve all watched progressives redefine terms over time, until things no longer mean what they once did. We don’t like it that they’ve done that. Or at least, I don’t. I’m bothered by what I see as a similar redefinition of Christianity that would uncritically adopt anyone who incorporates “Christ” as part of their teachings. The Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Mormonism are simply not synonomous. The Bible warns against those who would twist the truth. That’s what Mormon scripture and doctrine does.

       So, again, while I’ll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with any Mormon in the fight for the soul of this country, including moral positions on the sanctity of life and the family, and while I will unhesitatingly choose to love my Mormon neighbor as myself, I cannot call a Mormon what he or she is not: a Christian.

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       • 

         EauPureEtClaire
         November 14th, 2009 - 16:53

         Forgive my typos. I’m tired.

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       • 

         Enoch_Root
         November 15th, 2009 - 07:56

         EPEC – I am with you entirely. Like I said, I would start with the Apostle’s Creed as the primary litmus test.

         Here you and I might diverge, as I would then move into Tradition – and Authority (the only Authority I CAN tolerate, btw!).

         But nonetheless, any who profess the Apostle’s Creed are likely Christian. If they do not, they are not.

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       • 

         EauPureEtClaire
         November 15th, 2009 - 10:50

         Enoch-

         I think, Sir, we have agreement.

         I’m completely cool with the fact that within Christian tradition you and I probably have some differences. That we can both stand on the same foundational standard of evidence concerning what qualifies as Christianity and what doesn’t is plenty good enough as far as I’m concerned.

         :-)

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   • 

     Dahlhalla
     November 13th, 2009 - 15:02

     I really didn’t mean all this to lead to everybody’s expert take on LDS theology (though obviously it has). And that’s why I called Beck nouveau-Mormon, NTTAWWT–he just doesn’t have it all down yet. But he believes in it, is being a good father and husband, and doesn’t tell everyone they better be one or die. So all the BS about the history and past and are they REALLY Christians isn’t necessarily helpful-I know my history EPEC, and frankly, LDS peeps aren’t worried about what all the other religions are speculating about them. They’re too busy donating their time and money to charities and to those less fortunate.

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     • 

       Enoch_Root
       November 13th, 2009 - 15:14

       Dahlhalla – it is very normal for all manner of people to believe that their religion is THE true religion. The sincerest pumpkin in the patch.

       What I would say as a litmus test re Christianity (whether a faith is “Christian”) would be the Apostles Creed – at a base minimum. Anyone who sez it (the Creed, Credo (I Believe)) and believes all that he/she sez when reciting it, can pretty safely be said to be a Christian. After that, Christendom doesn’t really agree on anything anyway.

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     • 

       Horace Mitchell
       November 13th, 2009 - 16:56

       LDS aren’t worried about other religions are speculating about them. Why surely not. Pious Mormons are way too busy putting their sober faith in motion, which requires an almost constant thanking of God for his kindness and the perpetual sodomizing of those suspected of being one’s half-sister. It’s quite a rigorous pagan lifestyle I’m told.

       I can’t say which I’d most regret having to do, admit I was a fan of Glenn Beck or confess to being a practicing Mormon.

       Wasn’t it just yesterday when our dear leader, Dan Collins, encouraged his followers to throw off the chains of PC and call a hedonistic religious cult for what it is?

       Anyone stupid enough to believe a bumbling dumfock named Joseph Smith found sacred Jesus-texts at the 100th meridian probably would ass-sniff his mother and sister regardless of religion, but that doesn’t mean I have to respect the God Establishment rules of civility and turn away from the cold hard truth which is that these Mountain-swamp swine and their God-cult are nothing but babbling sexually repressed inbreds hellbent on calling firsts at buttfuckin’ little Molly and Sarah before they’ve ripen.

       Whose with me? Show of hands, and Eno I know you wanna raise that mitt!

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       • 

         Dahlhalla
         November 13th, 2009 - 17:19

         hey Thor, listen up ’cause this is a ONE TIME OFFER:

         how about you come over right now, and I show you what REAL hedonism is all about? Then I’ll bake you some muffins, and after that—if you’re man enough to handle it—you can have a crack at any of the other sister wives you’d like.

         All those classy things you just talked about above, let’s see if you can really do it. I wanna know the Man that is THOOOOOR!!!

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       • 

         Horace Mitchell
         November 13th, 2009 - 17:34

         I won’t lie; I’m coupled with what might just be the hottest piece of ass East of the Great Wall. I’d offer to let you eat her while I’m munching on your muffins, forgive the pun, but, sadly, she doesn’t swing.

         Imagine a million men on horseback thundering alee to invade your castle. The terror of sensations, the ramparts violated, constant waves of nothing before or after, and a toss of a hand towel at ya once my coital fury is complete!

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         Enoch_Root
         November 13th, 2009 - 17:59

         I have seen some of the “hottest women” on the planet – and just like the girlfriends you said you had living in Niagara Falls when you were in high school (you’ll remember), my bet is you haven’t been laid in years – if you’re interested how I know this, lemme just say I can tell the real deal from the posers – and you, sir, exist online only. XBox Live anyone?

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       • 

         Bob Reed
         November 13th, 2009 - 20:17

         thor,
         Why don’t you try acting like a gentleman for a change! How dare you speak to a lady that way! Slinging insults at the other gentleman around is one thing, but speaking to a lady like Dahlhalla in such gross terms is not only unwarranted, but would earn you the back of my hand if we gathered together in person!

         Don’t risk the Rockeman’s wrath! Remember the power of the pimp hand!

         A Gentleman would apologize, and if you don’t then I huess I was mistaken and you aren’t…

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       • 

         Horace Mitchell
         November 13th, 2009 - 23:53

         Waht the fuck are you on about, Rocksnocket Bob?

         Shut your mealy pie hole or I’ll e-clobber ya, ya hear me, hahaha. Back in you pen you old clucking hen!

         Besides the smutty waif, Dahlalala, begged I to satisfy her cheapest of sexual desires! I’ll not be spoken to as if I’m a piece of sexualized meat to be objectified and lusted over! Hurumph!

         Eno, I prefer to describe the princess as cute but others speak of her outer allure in more sparkling terminology. She’s hot enough for me, leave it at that.

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       • 

         Enoch_Root
         November 14th, 2009 - 00:53

         tohr – the first honest thing you’ve said in several weeks – congratulations.

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10. 

    Bob Reed
    November 13th, 2009 - 08:47

    So Dahlhalla,
    Fess up, was it AllahP?

    I don’t know what is so appealing about mocking Mormons in our society. Maybe there’s some titillating “edge” owing to the polygamist lifestyle practiced by some of the LDS…

    But as a Catholic I can readily identify with the “outcast” nature of believers in our modern society. It was not too many decades ago that Catholics were ridiculed, and even shunned, in a similar fashion in America, and in fact still are in certain parts of the country. I too agree with Tum Usher:

    “We have a God given right to worship as we please, as long as our beliefs do not infringe on the rights of others. That’s where Islam seems to run into problems.”

    It’s important especially for conservatives that we remember and honor this constitutional principle, because the progressive left certainly won’t. They’ve unequivocably demonstrated that their desire is to move towards a secular society; religion being the opiate of the masses that confuses the natural given us all by God with the “privileges” given us by the state…

    Mormons, like Beck, are a seemingly easy target that many can goof on without worrying about seeming extreme or judgemental. I mean, Beck is easy to goof on for some of the apocalyptic conspiracy driven theories he likes to embrace; but in some ways he’s right. And as far as effectiveness goes, I mean, he did basically get Van Jones axed. But unfortunately that relifious bias is one reason that Romney will never be POTUS, although I also think there’s an element of salesman like slickness there too-he’s not charismatic enough…

    But from a practical standpoint conservatives need to be respectful and welcoming of Mormons, and guys like Beck, into the coalition. Because to do otherwise is to guarantee the continued dominance of the identity politics, divide and conquer group that currently holds sway.

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    • 

      SBO
      November 13th, 2009 - 14:34

      I don’t know what is so appealing about mocking Mormons in our society

      You don’t have to worry about a Mormon sawing off your head on videotape or mailing you a bomb.

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      • 

        SBP
        November 13th, 2009 - 14:36

        Sorry, typo in my name above. The site seems to have forgotten me since the last time I was here.

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    • 

      Dahlhalla
      November 13th, 2009 - 14:56

      no, ’twasn’t him. but he’s party of the CliqueyClaque for sure.

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      • 

        Bob Reed
        November 13th, 2009 - 15:28

        zOMG! I’m dyyyyyiiiing to know who! So that, you know, we can talk trash about them too !!

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11. 

    StickeeNotes
    November 13th, 2009 - 09:03

    Additional note: A hardcore atheist would view Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Protestants and Muslims as equally crazy for believing in any god, but, as a Deist, I do not subscribe to that way of thinking. I view faith as a personal issue and respect those who believe in something greater than themselves, even if it’s not for me. If I were to judge a religion, I would base that judgment on what it encouraged and the character of its practitioners. Under that framework, I’d be hard pressed to object to the Latter-Day Saints.

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    • 

      Dahlhalla
      November 13th, 2009 - 15:04

      Seriously, why can’t everyone be as smeeert as you? Once again, something I wish I had said.

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12. 

    Mr. Bingley
    November 13th, 2009 - 09:27

    …present me with marauding Mormons beating and killing people…

    You have to admit that having to watch “The Donny And Marie Show” as a child comes very close to this standard.

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13. 

    Falahime
    November 13th, 2009 - 11:15

    I live in a place where I’ve felt like the crazy one because I’m *not* Mormon. :) I loved the post so much I made my mom read it too.

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14. 

    Horace Mitchell
    November 13th, 2009 - 11:36

    Glenn Beck can bath my low-swinging balls with his warm tears and then dry them with sweet rapid kisses, that is once God himself finishes the task of pleasuring me.

    Mormons, in general, are a bunch of treasonous brain-washed John Birch society Aryan nation stiffs. All that talk of Mormon incest, hey now c’mon, they only bang their cousins when their daughters are on the rag. Recessive genetic mutations, from ghastly asymmetrical deformities of the cranium to simple crossed-eyes and overbites, are common throughout Utah due to the incestuous Mormon lifestyle.

    Pink-eyed Glenn Beck couldn’t get laid on a female only ferret farm, hence his want for lustless brain-washed Mormon breeding cows.

    It’s all very sick, I tell ya.

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    • 

      Bob Reed
      November 13th, 2009 - 12:08

      “…that is once God Obama himself finishes the task of pleasuring me.”

      There, I fixed that for you; because the two nouns are basically interchangable in your lexicon…

      Otherwise? Just another insult-fest…

      Stay classy, playah…

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      • 

        Horace Mitchell
        November 13th, 2009 - 12:17

        HAhahaha.

        More Mormons means more beer for me.

        A guy in line to get lunch leans over to the guy next to him and says, “Wanna hear a Mormon joke?”

        The guy next to him replies, “Well before you tell that joke, you should know something. I’m 6′ tall, 200 lbs., and I am an Mormon. The guy sitting next to me is 6’2 tall, weighs 225, and he’s an Mormon. The fella next to him is 6’5 tall, weighs 250, and he’s an Mormon. Now, you still wanna tell that joke?”

        The first guy says, “Nah, not if I’m gonna have to explain it 3 times.”

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        • 

          Bob Reed
          November 13th, 2009 - 12:24

          Henny Youngman!

          Now why couldn’t you lead with that joke instead of insults? You still get to ridicule your intended target, but alienate no one in the process…

          Mormons don’t drink? I didn’t know that.

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        • 

          General Tso's Chicken
          November 13th, 2009 - 12:26

          Thor is a typical limp-dicked Stalinist asshole, as well as a typical Democrat bigot like his hero Robert Byrd. What a fucking loser.

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        • 

          Horace Mitchell
          November 13th, 2009 - 12:40

          Kiss me low-hanging sweetly, Agent Orange.

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    • 

      Horace Mitchell
      November 13th, 2009 - 17:03

      bath = bathe

      I read my own shit, see.

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15. 

    Horace Mitchell
    November 13th, 2009 - 11:55

    Mormons, Moonies and midgets!

    Shot through a canon!

    No safety net required.

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16. 

    agile_dog
    November 13th, 2009 - 12:57

    I have a question. Is that how our general political sphere is?

    Unfortunately, Dahlhala, yes, a vocal portion of the people who self-label as “conservative” are judgemental about people based on religous beliefs. I can’t guess at the percentage, but they are not the quiet ones, which makes it hard to tell what portion they are. Some are “smug” due to a conceit of their religous beliefs. Some are that way because they hold all religous beliefs in contempt – they are part of the conservative sphere because they are fiscal/political conservatives. We could have that whole “big tent” discussion, but I’d just rather say that opinions are like assholes – everybody has one, and most aren’t pretty. I think the people who are the core of the conservative movement are decent people – they firmly believe (in whatever they believe in), yet respect the rights of others – like the people commenting here, except that micro-dick, Perez Hilton-wannbe thor..

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    • 

      Horace Mitchell
      November 13th, 2009 - 13:32

      They say a dog often reflects the traits of its owner.

      Your dogs must all be homos.

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      • 

        agile_dog
        November 13th, 2009 - 14:33

        If so, then this must be yours:

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/content/images/2006/01/25/suki_on_ledge_300x400.jpg

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        • 

          Mike LaRoche
          November 13th, 2009 - 18:18

          Thor’s dog is crossing over with John Edwards.

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    • 

      Dahlhalla
      November 13th, 2009 - 14:42

      I’m seeing that. By the way the person who thinks they are “Con 1″ is making themselves known now, and claiming Free Speech, baby. Did I ever say anything about putting a lid on free speech? Not ever. I was asking a question or several. They can be smug all they like, but they’re making us look like assholes in the same way the lofty lefties are.

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17. 

    Peter
    November 13th, 2009 - 17:44

    There is a “creep” factor when we consider another religion that appears different. The problem is that people take the more sensational fragments of a religion, take it out of the context of the whole and place it in a bad light. Since the religion is relatively unknown, and all we hear is the twisted sensational stuff, we assume that the church is whacked out and wonder how the members can be kind, intelligent and successful and still accept that faith.

    A common statement about Mormons is that they are the kindest people and best neighbors you will meet but that the doctrine is too wierd.

    Being a Mormon who converted from being a protestant 35 years ago, it feels to me like the Mormons believe pretty much the same stuff as other Christians only more. Many Christian religions believe that if you have faith you will be saved. Mormons also believe this but also believe in keeping the commandments, serving God and our neighbors, being responsible citizens, being good parents, making and keeping sacred covenants, serving in the church, sacrificing time and money for the good of the church and world. They believe in apostles, prophets, modern day revelation, additional scripture, spiritual gifts, preaching the gospel to the world.

    From where I stand now, it seems hard to create a religion using just the bible. Most of the books of the bible were not written to us and are fragmentary and ambiguous.

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18. 

    Dan Collins
    November 13th, 2009 - 19:47

    Peter, it is pretty funny, isn’t it, how libs love “gnosticism,” but hate Mormonism?

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    • 

      Horace Mitchell
      November 14th, 2009 - 00:32

      I had to look up gnosticism. Congrats.

      I believe beauty will save the world, and I believe in love.

      Mormons are under-sexed fringe lunatics and xenophobic wagon trail trash. I love to hate on Mormons. Little bicycle peddling proselytizers, we should allow the reservation-locked Native Indians to have open season on ‘em Mormons just for the thrill of watching some fresh Serengeti-type high plains warfare. If properly armed, I’d lay money on the angry savages.

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      • 

        Enoch_Root
        November 14th, 2009 - 00:59

        if you had to look that up, it speaks to a glaring void in your edumacation – and a blind-spot of that sort explains a lot about you in particular.

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      • 

        Bob Reed
        November 14th, 2009 - 08:56

        Savages?!?!?

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19. 

    Joe
    November 13th, 2009 - 20:00

    Most conservatives like the founding fathers.

    And speaking of channelling and seances, I first heard of that not though Shirly Maclaine, but from Napoleon Hill in Think and Grow Rich. He would have imaginary conversations with his hero Ben Franklin.

    Think about it, you imagine someone you really like who is gone. You read all his works and biographies you can get your hands on. And then you ask, what would old Ben do in a situation like this. It is not a bad way to go. You could pick a lot worst than most of the Founding Fathers.

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20. 

    Horace Mitchell
    November 14th, 2009 - 00:47

    peddling = pedaling

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    • 

      Enoch_Root
      November 14th, 2009 - 01:01

      this tells me you re-read your posts AFTER you post them – which is not only a silly way to go about “production” – but also indicative of the same sort of self-gratifuckation employed by – say – a scat artist.

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      • 

        Horace Mitchell
        November 14th, 2009 - 01:56

        Is it Head Injury Awareness Month already?

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      • 

        Pablo
        November 14th, 2009 - 07:05

        A scat artist? Is that some one who sings nonsensical words or someone who paints with dookie? Either fits our little boi, but I was just wondering.

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        • 

          Enoch_Root
          November 14th, 2009 - 09:31

          ha! the latter.

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21. 

    Strawman
    November 14th, 2009 - 14:47

    As a younger straw lad I lived in Utah for a few years and made friends with some Mormons. I even had crushes on a few hot Mormon chicks… Heck if things had turned out differently, I may even have converted. The point is that I did not find them to be the least bit weird or crazy. I agree with stickeenotes on that… If you are claiming they are somehow weird or crazy, you have likely never known any in real life.

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22. 

    Meep
    November 15th, 2009 - 06:30

    Speaking as ine of the many Catholics around here, who really does believe in the Magisterium…. the Mormons are no crazier than we mackerel-snappers.

    I don’t mind the pairs of young men who try to convert us, if they don’t mind me trying to convert them to Catholicism. Seriously! The drinks are great!

    I’m not going to get into theological differences here. They are real, and they are serious. It’s not just a matter of surface differences. But why the Mormons would be considered crazier than New Age cultists, Pentecostals, Al Gore true-believers, Muslims, etc. I don’t quite know. The only thing that comes to mind is the gnostic “secret knowledge” thing, which also tars Scientology. But as a commenter above notes, a lot of New Agers are also gnostics, so I guess it’s a matter of being on the “wrong side”.

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    • 

      Enoch_Root
      November 15th, 2009 - 08:06

      Meep – totally funny – though I have never tried to convert a Mormon, I have Baptized one! Admittedly, he was NOT a practicing Mormon, but rather what is referred to as a “Jack Mormon” – but his last name was Smith and his dad’s name was John!

      I have however, turned the tables on Jahova’s Witnesses. They visited 3 times, on the fourth time brought a heavy-hitter in, who I asked to defend their interesting translations – to explain the textual discrepancies – in particular how their “version” of the Good News had bastardized John’s Gospel to the degree that one might not get the point – Chapter 1…

      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
      2 He was in the beginning with God.
      3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
      4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

      I explained that without serious academic rigor, a bad translation could lead to many, many errors. And then scandal. And ultimately heretical teachings. Then I said that from where I stood they were heretics, albeit well meaning. And that I loved them despite it being so.

      I then asked when their sect was founded and by whom. It was a very short 4th meeting. I didn’t convert any of them – but it was fun nonetheless. I haven’t seen them since, so offensive is the Whore of Babylon.

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      • 

        EauPureEtClaire
        November 15th, 2009 - 11:36

        I’ve had lengthy scriptural discussions with both Mormons and JWs…oh, and Church of Christ folks (not UNITED Church of Christ, though they’re so mainline and social-gospel-ish, that they could use someone to shake them up. No, I’m talking the group based out of Florida–or at least they used to be). Same with me, Enoch. I always ended up just seed-planting. No actual harvesting. But doggone those are interesting discussions. The thing is, most cults–including widely accepted ones like Mormonism and JW, are used to people who don’t know scripture or theology in any appreciable way. So when they run up against someone who has a clue, it’s usually quite a conversation. The missionaries are trained to handle certain lines of questioning. Get them off that track and they start to doggy-paddle, then founder and even flail.

        As a side note, years ago, I attended a little college out in Boston. One of my best friends in the dorm was a Mormon and invited me to start going to church with her. Having been a geeky adolescent who was very into comparative theology, I thought to myself, “Here’s my chance to see Mormonism from the inside!” So I went–for several months. Made a lot of marvelous friends. They were all really hoping I’d convert. Instead, they ended up cutting me off like a diseased appendage when I dared gently and lovingly to raise theological concerns with them at long last. It was an eye-opening experience as to the rigidness that exists within that community and how they treat people who don’t toe the line. It’s even more rigid if you’re an insider. I know people who’ve been excommunicated for their “failures.” Grace isn’t a real big part of things in Mormonism. That’s why, when I hear Glenn Beck talk about grace, I know he’s coming at it from his Catholic past and not from any Mormon teaching–where the concept of blood atonement still holds water.

        I once heard Glenn say in an interview about his faith that he ended up being so impressed by what he was seeing and experiencing (emotional response) with the Mormon Church that he decided he didn’t care if they were drinking Kool-Aid; he freely admits that he decided he was willing to drink it right along with them, that he no longer cared because he believed it was helping him. But I can’t help but believe that for someone like Glenn, to whom the truth is so important, a day of re-examination will ultimately come. Only God knows what will finally bring him to that point. I don’t want to discount the importance of emotional experience in relationship to faith, but I was always taught that you have to be rooted in something more solid than emotionalism…like biblical truth. Mormons are big into saying that they “know their testimony is true” because they feel it. I feel that one day the French will realize that asking I.M. Pei to stick a glass pyramid in front of the Louvre was a foolhardy idea. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen or that my opinion is even correct. Feelings are great, but they’re not facts. They’re not foundational. They are a house built on sand, to cite a parable.

        What I will say is this: Mormons get a lot more emotional in discussing their scriptures and theology than pretty much any other pseudo-Christian group I’ve ever known. One has to tread a lot more carefully with them. Best to pray sincerely before going into one of those discussions…

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        • 

          Enoch_Root
          November 15th, 2009 - 14:17

          Yes – you are 100% correct. There is a real problem that the RCC has – among the many – but this one is particularly nasty – and that has to do with piss-poor formation.

          I am not blaming Vatican II per se – what I am saying is that after Vatican II, many of the more “emotional” feel-good clergy began to de-emphasis the more “fire and brimstone” reality of it all, for something much softer. So, for fear of chasing away the flock, they simply did not form any of us to any degree which would enable us (I was born in 1969) to speak intelligently about the Bible and our Faith. Of course, the long and short of it is the Law of Unintentional Consequences – wherein millions of young Catholics got Confirmed without any f**king idea of what they were committing themselves to.

          And the only thing more criminal than a poorly educated woman is a poorly educated Catholic. But it sure as shit explains how 50% of my Catholic brethren could possibly vote “pro-choice” now, doesn’t it?

          Makes one very susceptible to all manner of goofy shit.

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23. 

    duchess rebecca
    November 15th, 2009 - 21:06

    “stamping” my feet…hahahahahahahahahahaha

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