I Hate that F**king Fig Tree

15Nov/0970

I Hate that F**king Fig Tree

Warning - More Theological Stuff Below.

While we have been on the subject of intolerance as it relates to religion, I thought I may as well beat the dead horse oto death completely - and then kick it in the jaw for good measure.

Dan's post about the vitriolic bigotry spewed by the hateful commentariat (any time and every time an article is written about the Pontiff, the Catholic Church, or anything relating to the Church) and the posts of a particular "Jeremy" (a self-proclaimed Born Again) made me think about one particular aspect that bothers me about Protestant Christians who rip on the Church.

Here is what kept crossing (so to speak) my mind:

The Catholic Church was the only game in town for the first 1000 years after the time of the Christ. Then we had the Great Schism. But in Europe Proper, She (the Church) was the singular Christian Tabernacle for 1500 years - until a certain Martin Luther instigated the Protestant Rebellion Reformation. And then of course we had Henry VIII who at first suppressed and then served as catalyst for the split from Rome - giving birth to the C of E.

Given that the main of American Christians can trace their origins to Europe Proper, I will confine this post to the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be honest: when I see/hear/sense bigotry toward the Church, I am quite literally offended. Here is why: Which Church is it, specifically, that promulgated the Christian Faith through those first 1500 years? To which Church, specifically, belonged the thousands upon thousands of Martyrs that quite literally gave their lives for the Faith? Which Church, specifically, is responsible for defending Christendom from the aggressions of the Moors? How many Christian women, children, and other defenseless believers were spared?Â Maybe most importantly, which Church, specifically, preserved the Word, published the Word, spread the Word, promoted the Word, defended the Word, and re-introduced the Word to Europe Proper after the fall of the Roman Empire? From which Church, specifically, came the most brilliant of the Theologians? To which Church did, say, St. Paul belong? St. Peter? St. Catherine of Sienna? St. Thomas Aquinas? I will not even go into the Gifts the Church and Her members have bestowed to all of Mankind (for free) with regard to Feminism, Science, Literature, Education, Medicine, the Arts, etc, etc. I will ignore all of that...

But I do want to ask all that bash the Church who call themselves Christians, "Do you owe nothing to Her? Do you think the Faith was buried in a time capsule from the time of Christ's Crucifixion until Luther dug it up in the 1500s?"

And finally, I would ask, "Why are you so spiteful of those who transmitted the Good News throughout the ages so that you, today, could come to 'hear and believe'? Many have sacrificed for you to bring the message to you. And yet you spit and beat them with the reed. Why?"

Enoch_Root

AKA. Bobby Donn Brubaker (the most popular man in Mesa, AZ), the Umbrella of Terror, Jack Ketch.

Website - More Posts

Tagged as: Anti-Papist Bigotry, Bigots, Catholic Church, Catholicism, Ecumenism, Fig Tree, Ingrates Leave a comment

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Dan Collins
November 16th, 2009 - 17:16

No, no . . . I’ll tell you what. Let’s do this a different way. Please list the Christopher Taylor-approved churches in descending order.

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- Christopher Taylor
  November 18th, 2009 - 14:43
  
  Its a longer list than yours :)
  
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  - Dan Collins
    November 18th, 2009 - 14:53
    
    Do you really think so, Christopher?
    
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Mike
November 17th, 2009 - 04:47

IÂ´m just gonna add a little argument to the “inarguable” then: Luke 8:10: And [Jesus] said, “To you [disciples] it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest in parables, in order that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.”

And, yes, it seems we will have to agree to disagree on comprehensivity. I believe God to have accurately and literally transmitted the information we need to understand His creative acts that brought the heavens and the earth and all that inhabit them into existance. However, I also believe that science supports the creation theory far better than that of any other theory to date. But thatÂ´s another argument altogether. One that IÂ´m more than willing to have, and do participate in on a regular basis in different forums.

I will put one thing out on the subject, just for your consideration. If God tells us that He created a world for man, and it was good, and death entered that world of man through manÂ´s own sin against his creator, and before man sinned there was no death in that world, and death is the penalty for sin, and Jesus Christ (God the Son) became man only to offer Himself as a willing and worthy sacrifice for manÂ´s sin(s) to save us from the penalty of sin, that being death; and if, on the other hand, evolutionists, mere sinful men, tell us (with no inarguable basis in fact) that man came into existance, rather, through a process of billions of deaths that took place regardless of whether there was sin introduced to any living race, thereby making it simply a natural process of life, rather than the consequence of rebellion against God and needing a remedy (willful and worthy sacrifice);

A) What does that say about the truthfullness of GodÂ´s Word, and, following the logic, the truthfullness of any “faith” based on that “Word?”

B) What was the point, the value even, of the sacrifice Christ made on our behalf if death came before sin? What exactly was he “redeeming” us from?

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Mr. Bingley
November 17th, 2009 - 05:51

The Catholic church has done many undeniably wonderful and worthy things, and deserves an honored place in our history for its efforts to hold Western Civilization together when things looked pretty bleak. But it is ultimately a human institution, composed of humans, fallen sinful humans like all of us are, people who will continue to sin no matter what wonderful things they do at other times or regardless of vows they take. That’s just an inescapable part of our nature. That’s why we daily ask the Lord to deliver us from temptation, because it is always there and we are always subject to it. The Protestant Reformation and the subsequent (and on-going) Counter-Reformation were vital, important and needed actions to pull the Church away from sins it was committing. I’m Presbyterian, and at my church we always talk how we are reformed but ever reforming; fully aware how our fallen nature is inescapable and unsolvable but through the Grace of Christ.

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Enoch_Root
November 17th, 2009 - 07:06

Mr. Bingley – no doubt. the Catholic Church, comprised of human creatures, has its share of Judases. Like any other. On the score of continued “reformation,” I would point you to this… a wonderful piece by one of my very favorite living authors, John C. Wright, a recent convert and former Lutheran turned Atheist:

He writes on his online journal [March 21, 2008]:

After three years of prayer, thought, and debate, and an honest attempt to follow where the spirit leads me, I am joining the Roman Catholic Church this Easter. Normally, I would keep this private, since I am not inclined to stir up sectarian debates between the two or three parts of the shattered church; but since several people on this website have said I was Catholic, and since I corrected them and said I was not Catholic, I did not want anyone who trusted me what I said that, to be surprised when that information turns out to be out of date.

For my Protestant friends, all I can do is assure you that that Church you broke away from in centuries past has been reformed of the abuses you complained of at that time. The Pope no longer sells indulgences. The theological differences are minor enough that Christly love, if you imitate His love, will cover them. I was raised Lutheran, and drank in anticatholicism with my motherâ€™s milk, so I assure you I am aware of most or all the objections, subtle and obvious, which you consciences in good faith might raise. The shock that came to me when I looked into Catholicism is that the Catholics do not teach what my teachers told me they teach. In any case, Protestant friends, I will be closer to you than I was when I was an atheist, so please consider this progress.

For my pagan friends, rejoice! My Protestant friends tell me my Catholic friends are pagans anyway! So I will be closer to you than I am now. And there is certainly some truth in the idea that Catholicism is a child of Jewish and Hellenic thought: the ancient civilization of Europe is still alive in the Catholic Church. If you worship Brigit, and I revere St. Brigit, this will be a common bond between us.

For the Atheist friends, give thanks! You may think of Catholicism as the most backward and obscurantist of the Christian sects. Not so! Not only does the Catholic Church acknowledge Darwinian evolution, the approach of at least some of the writers (St. Aquinas, for example, or St. Justin Martyr) is as rigorous and as rational as even the best of atheist writers, and darn mile more clear and rational than the worst of atheist writers (who are the only ones we hear about these days). Catholicism, in many of its branches, is not given to the religious enthusiasms of revivalism that so many atheists find disquieting. (Whether this lack of revivalism is a good thing or not, I leave for the reader to decide. Certainly more enthusiasm and crusading spirit would not be a bad thing for this Church at this hour of history.)

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Mr. Bingley
November 17th, 2009 - 07:34

No doubt, Enoch, the Catholic Church and many Protestant strains are drawing closer and I for one feel this is cause for joy.

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- Enoch_Root
  November 17th, 2009 - 08:08
  
  Amen to that,
  
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Dan Collins
November 17th, 2009 - 07:36

And more wine!

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Mr. Bingley
November 17th, 2009 - 07:43

Hey, if Jesus himself can supply the wine at the wedding who am I to say no?

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Dan Collins
November 17th, 2009 - 07:56

How’s the THS? I can put up a link to her wares, if you like, in time for Christmas.

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Mr. Bingley
November 17th, 2009 - 08:02

That’s very kind, Dan.

(I think she’s a little ticked at me because that link is one of the many things I haven’t gotten around to updating when I changed the Swilling from MT to WP a few months ago…)

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- Dan Collins
  November 17th, 2009 - 09:08
  
  Uh oh. Give me that link again, would you?
  
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  - Mr. Bingley
    November 17th, 2009 - 09:58
    
    Here ya go.
    
    Thanks!
    
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Hong Kist
May 16th, 2010 - 02:49

Wonderful theory. I like it. Appreciate your posting

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