Math and Science: SEND CHICKS NOW

28Nov/0914

Math and Science: SEND CHICKS NOW

I told Dan when I came on that I have two areas that I will blog on: education and actuarial science. So here comes the education [or, rather, academia].

I've amassed an omnibus post that collects what I've written about education, and one of my favorite themes is women in math and science, and the whining thereof.

From a blog post reviewing a book on women in academic math and science [originally found via Joanne Jacobs]

Some of the essayists, like Spelke and Ellison, argue that research shows that men and women have the same intrinsic cognitive abilities and motivation for math and science careers. They say there's also no evidence that market forces are going to correct those imbalances, as some suggest, so higher education institutions would have to act for change to occur. The evidence shows that gender stereotypes are having an impact on leading women away from math and science fields, the authors explain.

But others, like authors Jerre Levy and Doreen Kimura, have a different take. They argue that the "fundamental claim" of the Academies report that men outnumber women in certain math and science fields because of social barriers against females has "no scientific foundation." They say research has shown a connection between genetic and hormonal differences between males and females, which affect behavior and choice of occupation. They write:

"Although the magnitude of average sex differences in certain cognitive abilities has declined in the last forty years, none of these differences has disappeared or is likely to disappear. However, even if there were no cognitive sex differences in average mathematical or spatial ability, there would still be more males than females at the upper end of intellectual talent due to greater male variance. In consequence, there would still be more males than females who meet even minimum standards to be academic engineers, physical scientists, or mathematicians, and many more men than women with exceptionally high levels of talent."

Here's my bottom line: is there injustice being perpetrated against individual, identifiable people? If so, let's fix those injustices.

If you cannot point to some injustice, at this point I just don't care. Does it really matter if women just prefer to do something else, or if women aren't hanging out in that right tail? It's not like there's a peculiar "women's math" that is going undiscovered [and the people who posit such a thing will have to ponder their own thoughts of gender essentialism].

Here's one thing to consider, that I do take seriously: the academic career not being conducive to "having a life" - whether having kids or just doing something else beyond grinding away at research [and not being well-recompensed for this either... come on to the dark corporate side, my pretties]. The tenure process fritters away a woman's fertile years. Men aren't as badly hit by this; after all, they can date and marry one of their grad students later on [funny how often that happens]. Tenure also erects a barrier to new entrants as the old fart Boomers aren't moving on as they have nothing better to do than take up a faculty chair. [yes, some are still doing productive work, but once tenure is achieved and reputation has been made decades ago.... well, where's the pressure to produce?]

So the academic profession needs to look if tenure really makes sense, and if tenure does continue to make sense, if the process of awarding tenure makes sense. They need to look at how important the devotion to research is. And how much teaching is to be valued. And if it makes sense to try to attract older people to the profession [it might not hurt to get people who have actually worked jobs out in the "real world"... I think the disconnect between academia and industry is getting worse in many fields, and this may be hurting both parties.] The way these things balance currently are going to value certain activities and certain people more than others; it may just happen that the way things are currently weighted will hit different demographic groups differently.

If after careful reflection they decide the current system is just peachy keen, I recommend they quit whining about the whole "women in quantitative fields in academia" issue inasmuch women are deciding the hassle isn't worth it. These "well-meaning" people are not necessarily doing the women any favors; it seems more like a scam to scare up more dates for grad student advisors.

If they see that certain things need reform, they should reform them for everybody, and not set up a tenure mommy track. Treating women different from men ain't going to end with equal treatment for all, now is it?

And note, they tend to focus on women in quantitative fields in academia, as if they focus on other "underrepresented" groups, they're going to get really depressed. Seriously, stop trying to do "favors" to the underprivileged by lowering the bar; no one likes to be condescended to.

Yes, the book seems to be about math and science careers in general, and not academia in particular. But it seems to me all the people doing the arguing are academics; if the numbers amongst academia were "right", we'd probably not be hearing all this whining. It doesn't require being at the pinnacle of math achievement to be in most math-related careers out in corporate land, and you will find plenty of women amongst actuaries, just to pick a math-related career at random [I swear! It was random!]

Meep

Meep is a member of the Irish Catholic mafia, having a suspiciously high number of green-eyed, red-haired friends. While she doesn’t have red hair herself [except when she goes into the sun (rare for any vampire)], she does have green eyes. She’s a raving Papist and is a life actuary on the side [i.e., she counts dead people]. An amateur pain-in-the-ass [willing to go pro!], she likes covering retirement, mortality, math, and education issues.

Tagged as: education, math, science, women Leave a comment

Comments (14) Trackbacks (1) ( subscribe to comments on this post )

Bob Reed
November 28th, 2009 - 11:27

There is a fairly even distribution of women amongst the small aerospace engineering crowd.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Bob Reed
November 28th, 2009 - 11:28

There is a fairly even distribution of women amongst the admittedly small aerospace engineering crowd.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Meep
  November 28th, 2009 - 12:47
  
  Spread like peanut butter?
  
  I’m thinking industry has a lot less trouble finding teh wimmins than does the academy.
  
  HMMMMMMMM.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - Bob Reed
    November 28th, 2009 - 13:39
    
    That’s probably the truth, my alma mater only had one female professor back in my day, and only has 2 now; on a faculty of 12, not counting department heads and assistants…
    
    I personally think it has more to do with pay than the arduous journey down the tenure track; as you mention, one get’s “ahead” much quicker when succumbing to the pull of the “dark side”.
    
    Do you think that it’s important to have a greater number of ladies in the academy, moreso than in actual industry?
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
    - meep
      November 28th, 2009 - 14:41
      
      I don’t give a crap about how many women make prof. I think academia is in danger, and it’s because they get caught up on these surface arguments as opposed to looking at whether they need to change their business model [and not to have the reaction of shudder in hearing the term "business model". Leftism infects all sorts of academic fields, even the so-called hard sciences.] There needs to be a bit more diversity of thought, and less hang-ups on diversity of sex.
      
      I much prefer corporate life. As I told some people after dropping out of grad school: “I want to solve problems people care about, and the way I know they care about them is they’ll give me lots of money to solve them.” And there’s a lot more possibilities and flexibility involved.
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
    - Justin Reynolds
      November 28th, 2009 - 23:52
      
      Which high school is your alma mater?
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
    - meep
      November 29th, 2009 - 05:00
      
      I went to the North Carolina School of Science and Math
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
Smitha
November 28th, 2009 - 18:24

I think people should just stop forcing all this attention onto women in math and science careers. Frankly, it’s just getting annoying now.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
K
November 28th, 2009 - 21:55

There is a fairly even distribution of women amongst the small aerospace engineering crowd.

I’ve worked as an engineer in aerospace for 35 years now and there is not, at this moment a “fairly even distribution of women”.

But fear not, the real life quotas will soon be filled. I have it from several management informed sources that with the new “women in science” push that aerospace companies will be preferentially hiring only women (with rare exceptions) until the mandated quotas are filled.

I should also point out that preferential hiring of minorities and women in aerospace engineering have been in effect for the last 25 years. As a general rule, women applicants that were even marginally acceptable were hired and promoted over more accomplished and qualified males. They were also promoted faster and rose faster in the pay scale than their equivalent male counterparts and were laid off less frequently.

Aerospace depends critically upon government support and has adapted itself as a “diversity engine” in response to requirements laid down by leftist administrations. In the mid 90s, the engineering staff at the large company I worked for was called into an “all hands meeting” and told to look around. We were told that in 10 years less than 15 percent of the engineers would be “white males.” And danged if that didn’t happen! But it didn’t happen via a meritocracy, it happened due to the application of a little democratic racism/fascism.

I would also like to point out that the conclusions concerning the “research” on women in science was flawed. Yes, the mean ability of women and men in science and math are the same, but in the high end tail of the distribution, the areas where the .1 percent live, men dominate. This is also the population from which the science and engineering professors and the most talented inventors and engineers are plucked. When less qualified and talented women are given those jobs, it seems quite likely that the country’s technological progress will be negatively effected.

But who gives a sh*t about that?

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Justin Reynolds
  November 29th, 2009 - 00:34
  
  Right when I began to believe that beyond Meep troll things couldn’t get much creepier. How wrong one can be.
  
  Hi, K. I’m thor. Play the role of victim much? At one point in your life, K, curly hair was supposed to grow on your balls. Listen to yourself, you sound like some teenage girl complaining of her first visit to that certain doctor’s office with stirrups.
  
  What a frowny wet-faced sniveler you are. God knows how much of Larry Craig’s crusty semen stained your wrinkle-free Dockers. You’re a very sick man, K, and terribly bitchy too.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - K
    November 29th, 2009 - 01:18
    
    “You’re Thor? I’m tho Thor I can hardly pith!”
    Punchline of well known joke.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
    - General Tso's Chicken
      November 29th, 2009 - 01:26
      
      Thor pithes sitting down.
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
- Bob Reed
  November 29th, 2009 - 01:45
  
  K,
  I resect your opinion, and experience, and admit that my own personal experience is limited to DOD projects; some high level secret strategic projects. Now these were some of the very government projects you alluded to, and we did have a fair amount of women in our ranks; but I assure at least in the division I worked in, they were all very competent, top shelf engineers. Other than that, my only exposure was in graduate school, where women were around 40% of the student body.
  
  Other than that, I used my degree to secure a commission as a Naval aviatior, earning a type certificate that was restricted to men only in those days.
  
  I am taken aback a bit by the apparent cabal you describe, but am also aware of how government personnel mandates and affirmative action effect staffing.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Sean C.
November 29th, 2009 - 01:46

The same high school where I boffed your mom on her prom night.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )