A Good Man is Hard to Find…

23Jan/1054

A Good Man is Hard to Find…

....if you're too freaking picky.

So there was a NYT article on this [and WaPo], and then the WSJ had a piece, so I guess it's safe for me to remark upon it.

I won't quote the stats, just want to pull out the "personal angle" to the column:

Rachel Downtain is a telecommunications project manager who says her friends would describe her as tall, slender, fit and active. Not someone you'd think would fail to find a mate. Yet, of late, Ms. Downtain has been sifting through sperm-donor Web sites. This is not her first choice for how to start a family, but at 35 she says she's quickly running out of options.
....
Understanding this change requires dipping into the personal. "I've found a lot of Mr. Almosts, but I can't find Mr. Right," Ms. Downtain says. "I've been dating forever. Where is he?" When she brings men back to her very nice, four-bedroom home, they often comment about her success. A few flat-out say they're uncomfortable with her salary advantage, education advantage (master's degree), or both. The final blow comes when she tells them about all her prominent volunteer work in the Kansas City area. "I'm being honest and telling them about my life, but I feel like I'm coming across as too good for them. That is never my intention."

Oh honey. So much wrong there.

Speaking as a fellow 35-year-old woman, I'm glad I've not been on the dating market for over ten years. I don't care how tall [oops, that's a strike], slender, fit, active you are, at this age women are well beyond their fresh-by date and cannot compete with hotties in their early twenties. Consider your competition - this applies in the biz world, as well as the dating world - if you are fighting for market share [as it were] in a desirable market and the customers have a lot of choices, you are going to have to find some sort of edge to be able to compete. Otherwise take your wares to other markets.

I also wonder if this woman really wants a man as partner, or just wants a lifestyle accessory. She's got a 4-bedroom house... why? What are all the rooms for? And why bring the men there? Why does she bring up all her activities in talking with the men? Why not focus on the guy, ask what he does, ask about his opinions on things? Why mention your job at all?

Anyway, I'm here to help with some practical tips, from my experience and just plain logic:

1. Better your odds. They keep bringing up the dismal sex ratios [for women] on liberal arts campuses, or college in general. But note they don't bring up the sex ratios at engineering schools.... hmmm.

Back in ye olden tymes [1970], my mother went to Clemson University, in the nursing program. She told my grandpa that it was because they had a good nursing program; later she fessed up that she picked Clemson because the sex ratio at the time was 7-1. And not only would she have no problem getting a date, these guys were Southern, and engineers! She landed my dad, an EE major, and they were married two years later [before they graduated].

Engineering schools are no longer so lopsided, but they do still tend to be 40/60 the other way.

In any case, this applies to lots of things, not just colleges. For example, stay out of NYC if you're a woman looking for a mate. The odds really suck there. Might I suggest Alaska?

2. Don't waste your youth. Speaking of my parents being married when they were 20, a problem a lot of women have is that they want to "have fun" and piss away the entirety of their hot period. And when they want to settle down, they are really going to have to settle. Your peak hotness as a woman comes in the early twenties, so take that into consideration.

Then there's fertility -- that peaks in your twenties, too. People think that 35 is a magic age for fertility dropoff; nope, that's when it has fallen off a cliff -- fertility starts declining well before then. IVF and such may help a little, but they're not exactly pleasant... and dealing with pregnancy and childbirth at such an age, when you were built to spawn starting in your teens... no, it's not pretty.

So yeah, have a little fun. That's what college is for. But you don't need 15 years of "fun" or career-building. A more realistic cut-off date is 25, not 35. The articles about the dearth of men usually centers around these older women, and nobody brings up the obvious that it's not the 22-year-olds who are bitching. Hmmm.

3. Know your level of attractiveness. This doesn't just apply to physical attractiveness, but also your personality. You need to know your market price in the market you're attempting. If you're a bit "off", you're not going to be able to compete for the guys all the other women are clamoring for.

I'm more than a bit out there myself, and realized I was going to have to find my guy in the irregular bin. Someone who is a bit weird, and fails a lot of the regular checklist items women make -- I could not compete with the hot chicks, even when I was young. I was a geek, and therefore went looking in that particular group [and the sex ratios were in my favor, too]. I never had a problem getting a man because I knew where my goods sold best.

4. Don't be an entitled bitch. You'd think that you wouldn't have to tell women this, but you'd be wrong.

I didn't link to the NYT piece, but the attitudes of some of the women there are downright nasty. Men will know when you don't respect them, and why would they stick around with you if you're always judging and sniping?

A first step in not being an entitled bitch is not taking any women's studies classes. Here's a thought to sub for those classes - see if you can take some vocational shop classes somewhere, maybe you can get yourself a guy with useful skills, like being able to rewire the kitchen. And if you don't get the guy, at least you'll learn something more productive than sprinking sentences with random references to "patriarchy" and "hegemony".

Anyway, I'm well past my sell-by date. Should I become widowed or divorced, I'm unlikely to marry again [though my mother did it, but she's a much nicer person than I am]. My eye is more to pairing off my kids, and getting me some grandkids to remain in the Darwinian game. You better believe I'm going to tell my girls not to treat men poorly, and to be realistic about what they can get from the dating pool.

Related:
Obsidian's 2-parter: Part 1, Part 2

Althouse talks about getting your own Todd Palin [talk about setting a high hurdle!]

Hot Air discussion

PURE AWESOME: Finding Mr. Wong [and soon-to-be Mrs. Wong]. I love it.

Meep

Meep is a member of the Irish Catholic mafia, having a suspiciously high number of green-eyed, red-haired friends. While she doesn’t have red hair herself [except when she goes into the sun (rare for any vampire)], she does have green eyes. She’s a raving Papist and is a life actuary on the side [i.e., she counts dead people]. An amateur pain-in-the-ass [willing to go pro!], she likes covering retirement, mortality, math, and education issues.

Filed under: Too Lazy to Categorize Leave a comment

Comments (54) Trackbacks (1) ( subscribe to comments on this post )

Alan Kellogg
January 23rd, 2010 - 06:54

I hope the day comes soon when she learns that a hard man is good to find.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Enoch_Root
January 23rd, 2010 - 07:08

the natural course of events – early to mid 20s married – late 20s kids – early to mid 30s maybe a stray kid – late 30s raising kids – 40s raising kids – 50s raising kids/marrying them off…

why is it so?

Oh, right! the patriarchy!!!!! buck the patriarchy! be barren – an olde maid…

baby with the bathwater and all that.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Pete
January 23rd, 2010 - 08:44

Meep,

Good post. Nice to hear things like this from good women out there. I’m thankful to be married to a total sweetheart. She’s a theater “techie/geek” type with a good head on her shoulders and a great mom.

The marriage articles you read online can be a real downer sometimes. Don’t know what to tell my boys when they enter the “market”.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Meep
  January 23rd, 2010 - 09:46
  
  Start telling them not to hang around women who don’t respect them.
  
  The contempt I see sometimes, and the guys put up with it… ugh. I hate that.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - Enoch_Root
    January 23rd, 2010 - 09:57
    
    Meep – there’s a phrase for that condition.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
    - Meep
      January 23rd, 2010 - 11:01
      
      Well, when they’re young, using “pussy-whipped” isn’t exactly appropriate.
      
      It’s a phenomenon at least as old as Shakespeare… so the high-toned approach would be to take the kids to a production of The Taming of the Shrew, and discuss. [or consider Lysistrata]
      
      But usually one can point to examples y’all know…
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
K
January 23rd, 2010 - 13:06

Could it be that a major purpose of the sick culture we live in is to keep people unmarried until the fertility peak has passed?

Women pass the age of “hotness” are at a disadvantage not only because they aren’t as “marketable” but also because their older male “customers” are no longer so directed by raging male hormones and female chastity to jump into marriage at an early age. Modern marriage has a 50 percent failure rate where the consequences are likely life destroying for the man. The “older and wiser” male is going to give that trap more than a few sniffs before committing.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Meep
  January 23rd, 2010 - 18:34
  
  I can’t speak for men, obviously, but my own husband is well older than me. And that may have been why he was willing to try out the very risky lifestyle choice of marriage. Because he had experience to know what sorts of females to avoid, and which you could trust better.
  
  He had an anti-checklist — danger signs that he had just hooked up with trouble.
  
  Unfortunately, that anti-checklist takes direct experience to construct.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - Larry
    January 23rd, 2010 - 23:21
    
    I hope he passes on his experience to his sons. There are two ways to gain experience, and learning from the mistakes of others is the less painful of the two.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
Astroturd Rejectus
January 23rd, 2010 - 21:01

Well, a 35-yo is fine, as long as she can appreciate a joke and understands that you can never have too much ammo.

Also, she should be prepared to have children, because some of us men want children of our own that we can hold and play with and mentor and bottle-feed in the early days.

She should also be prepared to debate the differences between connection-oriented protocols and connectionless protocols, when should children be physically disciplined and whether or not to learn Chinese.

Perhaps lastly, she should understand that the word “solder” should not be pronounced to rhyme with sodomy.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
vivi
January 23rd, 2010 - 21:09

Very perceptive comments, Meep. I just finished a saddening book called “Guyland,” by Michael Kimmel, based on his surveys of men from 16-25. The “hooking up” culture has made it very difficult for women from 21-25 who want to find a nice guy close to their own age and settle down. My understanding of the book is that there are a lot of guys who don’t understand how points 3 and 4 apply to them.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Ymal Brucker
January 23rd, 2010 - 21:31

Of course a good man is hard to find. It’s the women that make them good!

Ladies should quit looking at a man as a finished product, rather a prospective mate should be considered as a source of raw material to be molded.

Dogs are trained with praise. Cats are trained with food. Men are trained with ego stroking.

Yes, it is that simple.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Cincinnatus
  January 23rd, 2010 - 22:01
  
  I feel sorry for your husband if you have one.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - Larry
    January 23rd, 2010 - 23:25
    
    I don’t need to be trained.
    And really, training? Cats, dogs, men, do you really thing that this is a flattering comparison? (Besides which, no one has ever really trained a cat.)
    If you think he needs to change, perhaps you are looking in the wrong place.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
- meep
  January 24th, 2010 - 02:07
  
  Good luck with that.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- Max Entropy
  January 24th, 2010 - 12:56
  
  Ugh.
  “Men marry women for who they are.
  Women marry men for who they think that they can turn them into.”
  How is that molding coming along?
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Deathknyte
January 23rd, 2010 - 23:47

I have a friend who recently got married and his new wife wanted me to meet one of her friends who is desperate to find someone. So I meet her, she has no idea what I look like, or really any details, yet when she is talking to me she “knows all about me.” So she feels free to put her feet up on my leg like I am her footstool. After I told her to remove her feet for the third time and I am considering getting the point across by knocking them off she finally gets the idea that I really don’t like her feet on me. She couldn’t figure out why I didn’t want to give her a hug as I was leaving the after ceremony gathering a few minutes later.

No respect for me equals no interest from me.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- spongeworthy
  January 24th, 2010 - 07:27
  
  While it’s odd that she didn’t remove her feet after being asked, I doubt if disrespect had much to do with it. She was being overly friendly with her new husband’s good friend. Consider the alternative and climb down off your high horse. She may be a goofball but she’s trying, and that counts for something.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Paulman
January 23rd, 2010 - 23:48

The Japanese call unmarried women over 25 “Christmas Cake”, because no one wants Christmas cake after Christmas… I always thought it was cold, but there is some wisdom there as well.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
TVS
January 24th, 2010 - 00:27

I work in Japan several weeks a year and have lived there off and on for over 20 years. The current disconnect between the expectations of Japanese women and the reality of what Japanese men can realistically achieve has gotten so wide that up to 30% of Japanese men have given up, not only any hope of marrying, but most hope of even getting a girlfriend. As a result the Japanese birth rate has skidded down past replacement and is headed for 1 or less.
Modern societies *can* kill themselves with this self-centered nonsense.
In the US and Canada, for men the negative aspects of marrying and having children have gotten so obvious that it’s no wonder more and more are shying away from it. The woman above who quite obviously was simply looking for a sperm donor from the very beginning is one of the reasons why.
But perhaps it’s just evolution in action. Most of the new monocultural immigrant groups happily have kids at rates far beyond replacement. Maybe in 20 or 30 years the problem will be over as “intellectual” NY types simply fade away, destroyed by their culture of entitlement and selfish lifestyle.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- sestamibi
  January 24th, 2010 - 01:13
  
  That is why, as Philip Longman pointed out, patriarchal societies have an evolutionary advantage in terms of survival. As he put it:
  
  “Without implying any endorsement for the strategy, one must observe that a society that presents women with essentially three options — be a nun, be a prostitute, or marry a man and bear children — has stumbled upon a highly effective way to reduce the risk of demographic decline.”
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- muddywood
  January 24th, 2010 - 02:34
  
  There is a movie with that very premise….Idiocracy.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - CoolHand
    January 24th, 2010 - 04:09
    
    I loved that movie.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
  - Meep
    January 24th, 2010 - 05:29
    
    What I find very interesting is that those so wedded to Darwinism are least likely to reproduce.
    
    I guess their genes clearly suck.
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
    - thor's mom
      January 24th, 2010 - 06:45
      
      Hence, thor.
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
CoolHand
January 24th, 2010 - 02:34

Well, speaking as a just turned 30 yr old single man, I feel zero (0, zip, zilch, nada) sympathy for the woman in the story.

I only just met her 30 secs ago, and already I dislike her.

If her personality is that repellent in print, imagine what she’s like in person.

It’s no wonder she can’t find anyone to love or even live with her. She’s essentially looking for a superbly educated Andonis who also happens to be a masochist, that will lavish attention on her, and no doubt tend to the lesser duties of the house and raising her children as she’s busy with her career changing the world.

I believe my old man calls that “having an over developed sense of self-worth”.

Women always talk about “Mr. Right”. Of course, no one is perfect, and instead some women settle for someone they can “train” (as a previous poster so condescendingly put it).

News flash ladies, men cannot be trained. We are what we are.

If you find someone and discover that you CAN train them, what you’ve actually got is a boy in man’s shoes, a weakling with no self esteem, who’s personality is easily run over by a stronger one. Building a life with that kind of fool will end poorly, I guarantee it (and statistics bear this out). If the guy ever does find his balls, things will go south very quickly and seemingly inexplicably.

If you want a real man, you will have to take what you find.

Men have to do the same thing, but being grounded in reality by nature, real men know right off the bat that you get what you get, so we choose our mates accordingly.

We don’t look at a woman and immediately decide what we’re going to change about her (never mind the outcry that would be heard if we were ever to utter the words “female in need of training”). We look at a woman and her personality, and ask ourselves if this is a person we can tolerate all day every day for the rest of our lives. Then we make our choice.

Lookit, it boils down to this:

For men, marriage is risky as hell (to both our health, and our wealth), and women are the most unpredictable force on the planet (bar none, though the central vortex of a tornado comes a close second), so we tread very lightly on this score, lest we wake one day to find that we’ve just had 40 years of our lives and our children stolen from us because our faithful and loving wife changed her mind.

I dunno, but it really rubs me the wrong way to read how good men are impossible to find, when there are a great bloody lot of us circulating out here that cannot find a woman who isn’t a horrible person (disrespectful, impossible to be around, self centered, etc) and won’t cut our throats or rob us blind at the first sign of trouble should we get married.

Also, and this is just an aside, don’t complain about men not being real men anymore either.

It’s hard as hell to be a man anymore without going insane.

The entirety of society tells men that aggressive behavior is bad, violence never solves anything and all that, but then women expect a man to be aggressive and strong to protect and provide for them.

Women want to be independent and earn their own keep, but they look for mates based on how well the man can provide for them and protect them.

Women want men who are polite and respectful, but they cry condescension and chauvinism when we open doors for them or treat them with deference or respect.

Women want men to be in touch with their feelings and express themselves, but they treat men who treat them well as door mats, while lavishing attention on men who treat THEM like door mats. (The quickest way to get rid of a woman you don’t want to date any longer is to be respectful and talk about your feelings, while the quickest way to catch a woman’s interest is to be rude to her, figure that one out).

We are now working on our third or fourth generation of men raised by women to BE women. I find it baffling that women cannot figure out what happened to all the good/real men.

The real man died long ago. Women killed him.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Mike LaRoche
  January 24th, 2010 - 03:23
  
  CoolHand is absolutely right.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - CoolHand
    January 24th, 2010 - 04:08
    
    Thank you.
    
    I’ve basically said “To Hell with society, I am my own man.”
    
    Regardless of what I’m “supposed” to be, I go my own way.
    
    I like tools, all kinds, but metalworking tools especially.
    I own a machine shop, and do welding, fabricating, manufacturing, and inventing as well.
    I work with my hands AND my mind.
    I like cars, fast car, new cars, old cars, you name it.
    I’ve raced stock cars on dirt tracks.
    I’ve won races, I’ve lost race, I’ve been upside down and hit everything you can hit with a race car.
    I’ve come close to death in a race car on more than one occasion.
    I’ve built those race cars and hot rods with my own hands.
    I like guns because they are both ingenious devices and tools whose use requires skill and effort to master.
    I like the tangible. I love holding something made by man in my hands and appreciating what it took to create it.
    
    But most of all, I like women. Real women, not bubbled headed fools, or vacuous beauties with fake boobs, or those horrible activists who make caricature look plausible.
    
    I want a woman who’s nice to me when I’m nice to her.
    Who doesn’t consider all the angles before she speaks to me.
    Who isn’t afraid to be seen before she’s put on her makeup.
    Who doesn’t try to be anything but what she is.
    And most of all, who doesn’t ask me to be anything but what I am.
    
    That doesn’t look like to much to ask for really, but I’ve been on this same trail for ten years now, and I’ve yet to meet her.
    
    I’ve seen a lot of posers and fakes, gals who can’t figure out who THEY are, or who want to change who I am, but never someone who was just comfortable in their own skin and respectful of how I live in mine.
    
    Probably doesn’t help that I’m fat, hairy, self-employed, and frequently opinionated. . . . . .
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
    - Andy
      January 24th, 2010 - 05:54
      
      Opinionated? You? No!
      :-)
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
    - CoolHand
      January 24th, 2010 - 06:50
      
      I know!
      
      You’re shocked, right?
      
      I can tell.
      
      Seriously.
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
    - Meep
      January 24th, 2010 - 08:22
      
      Best luck on your search, sir.
      
      My husband was 35 when he found me [I was 22] — keep hope alive!
      
      Like or Dislike: 0 0
- MikeO
  January 24th, 2010 - 21:06
  
  CoolHand,
  
  I am a happily married man about a dozen years older than you. I’ve been with my wife for fourteen years.
  
  You, sir, have written what would have saved me fourteen years in the wilderness (seven before meeting my wife plus seven before marrying her) had I read this sometime in 1989 or so.
  
  In return, the little I have to offer you is this: Keep to what you know is true. Meet as many women as you can, and discard them ASAP when they show the signs. There are many good women out there–I somehow managed to find one. Be true to yourself, and if that is not good enough for her, then neither is she.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Mike
January 24th, 2010 - 07:35

CoolHand should write a book. You are brilliant sir!

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
bruce wayne
January 24th, 2010 - 09:01

coolhand! My brother!
You speak for me.

I have been driving a 1939 Ford pickup, a traditional hot rod, every day for 16 years. I have antique Harleys, my newest car is a 1966 Chrysler convertible, its been in our family for 40 years, etc.
My workshop is 40X135, lathes, mills, welders, blah, blah.

Have you noticed how often women whine that “it’s hard” to raise their children and have a job too?

Maybe its the women who aren’t qualified to raise kids.

I raised two sons by myself, no wife, no daycare EVER and went to work everyday for more than 30 years.
I also maintained 5 rent houses and antique Harleys ridden often and built a 1935 Ford hot rod from the frame up, along with many other projects in the same period.

My sons turned out good, no drugs, no trouble with the law, both graduated from college.
One is a Certified Jeweler, the other an Electrical Engineer.

I enjoyed every minute of it and only regret that they grew up and left home.
One other thing: I am 59 and have NEVER owned a television.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Brown Line
January 24th, 2010 - 09:50

Meep, something that women should also consider is delaying bearing your first child until you’re in your mid to late thirties significantly increases the risk of breast cancer, especially in your late forties to early fifties. The reason for this is not well understood, but statistically there is a strong correlation between having a late first child and early-onset breast cancer.

As for Rachel and her search for Mister Perfect, she wants someone who is at least as well educated as herself (or, to be precise, who has at least as many degrees as she does), makes as much or more than she does, has at least as many trophies on his shelf, is strong, virile, dependable: and who will bow to her every whim. All I can say is, “Good luck.”

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
Anonymous
January 24th, 2010 - 11:50

Well, speaking as a just turned 30 yr old single woman, I feel zero (0, zip, zilch, nada) sympathy for CoolHand and men of his ilk.

I have the misfortune of living in New York City. So let me tell you a little bit about the “real men” I and some of my horrible, rotten, selfish, careerist friends have met here and with whom we have been too foolish to get fully involved.

The short list of “real men”:

1) The one who saw my picture on the internet, went out on a date with me and told me to my face: “When I saw your picture I was lke ‘ughhh’, but then I printed out the picture, showed it to my friend and he said, you shouldn’t be so shallow, so I decided to come and meet you.” Being offended that somebody called me ugly to my face makes me an entitled bitch! I’m obviously dating outside my class and should put up with these types of loving overtures. And this was years ago, just think how ugly I am now!

2) The one who told me he came to this country because he knocked a girl up while on summer vacation as a teen, but that “she had an abortion anyway when we found out it was retarded” (see 1 above). Too bad I missed out on those genes.

3) My friend’s ex-husband, whose alcoholism and two-pack a day habit of smokes caused him to cough up serious amounts of blood every morning. Ex-husband was very keen on having babies. Friend’s response was “I don’t want to have children with someone who might not make it to 40. Can you lay off the substances while I consider it?” He said, “No, I’d rather smoke and drink. And uh, cheat on you.” Naturally this makes her an evil, childless shrew and you should judge her appropriately.

4) My friend’s ex-boyfriend, whose employer paid for his multiple stints in rehab, where he was implanted with a device that would make him sick if he ever drank again. He did so, had seizures and was hospitalized in a coma. Does this example of a “real man” have any trouble getting women? Nope. He’s currently engaged and living in a beautiful Manhattan apartment paid for courtesy of his current girlfriend – who is obviously an evil working woman who just doesn’t realize that he is the man of the house and could easily take care of HER.

5) A lovely ex-boyfriend who was adamantly pro-euthanasia to the point of creepiness. Because I’m looking to marry a “real man” who can pull a Shiavo on me twenty years from now when he finds someone else who isn’t past their “sell by” date.

6) A friend’s current boyfriend who makes her sit next to him while he watches football on television and starts screaming and throwing dishes against the wall if she so much requests to go to the store on a toilet-paper run during “the big game”. This is obviously my friend’s fault, as she is highly unreasonable and even has even had the audacity to ask her boyfriend to go attend unimportant events like weddings with her during times when “the big game” is on.

7) Another friend’s ex-boyfriend who was too busy donating his sperm to lesbian friends (not that he was actually interested in having any children of his own right now) and working on his Ph.D. thesis in philosophy to make time for a real woman.

8) A friend of a friend’s husband, who had a substance abuse problem, and who shoveled their mutual possessions into the middle of the living room and poured the contents of their refrigerator all over them. Though the police have been called to their apartment numerous times for domestic violence, this is obviously due to her failings, and were she to divorce him, she would be just one of many evil, 30-something childless shrews who failed to realize how good she had it.

Now, don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of gainfully employed, straight, sober, hardworking men here in New York City who haven’t been to prison, and who want families. We meet them all the time. My friends and I just prefer the jagoffs above. [Okay, I'm lying - we met them in our twenties when we were still attractive, and we decided on the "real men" above because we're "picky".]

Speaking more seriously, let me address some of CoolHand’s concerns:

“Women want to be independent and earn their own keep, but they look for mates based on how well the man can provide for them and protect them.”

We’re not necessarily interested in “earning our own keep” for the sake of earning our own keep. We’re interested in earning our own keep because we’re not interested in passing up educational opportunities while wishing on a star that there might be a man with the wherewithall to support us and later finding out (when he doesn’t materialize) that we’re sixty-five years old, living in a studio apartment eating canned cat food, and that all we’re good for is secretarial work and serving fries at MickeyDs.

CoolHand:

“Women want men who are polite and respectful, but they cry condescension and chauvinism when we open doors for them or treat them with deference or respect.”

That’s strange. About a year ago, I was at a cocktail party where a man about your age made the following bold pronouncement: “Chivalry died when you got the right to vote.” All the women in the room (whose views varied across the political and feminist spectrum) were APPROPRIATELY APPALLED and expressed how happy they were when men opened doors, pulled out chairs etc. When I meet someone who shows me deference or respect, I will respond with gratitude. If I ever meet “Chivalry died when you got the right to vote guy” again (also known as “A fetus is just a parasite guy”) – he’s getting a knuckle sandwich.

Now again, on a serious note, I realize that feminism caused a sh*tload of this. Feminism allowed you to think that the appropriate response to an unplanned pregnancy is to send us two c-notes and to do us the favor of making an appointment for us at Planned Parenthood instead of raising a child. Feminism allowed you to think that any woman who doesn’t put out for you on the third date is a useless repressed “holdout” b*tch entirely lacking in any sort of appeal [I suppose this would be my category], while simultaneously deriding anyone who actually had the nerve to sex you the way you wanted them to. Feminism allowed you to think that the sexes were so equal, you could live off of a woman the way women (who were engaged in the tasks of raising children and keeping a home) lived off men.

Unfortunately, though I’m not a feminist, I don’t live in a place where I have the logistical support of a sex ratio and where being a “holdout” to this scheme will matter. Why did I move here? I grew up here. Why have I stayed? I have a professional license (careerist shrew alert!) that doesn’t allow me to go elsewhere for the moment. But I do want to find an honorable man, so I am working on the big move. Probably to some place where decent men like yourself will say “you’re past your expiration date”.

All that to say this: if you are acquainted with soap, employed, drug- and alcohol-free, not more than 40 pounds overweight, do not have a history of violence, and do not expect your partner to look like Jenna Jameson – i.e. if you commenters are really the men you say you are, prove it to my friends and myself. Until then, the “real man” remains an elusive mythical beast.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Enoch_Root
  January 24th, 2010 - 12:10
  
  they do exist. i have several friends who are outstanding candidates. problem: they say the only women left to pick from are extremely damaged. but the stories of their dates are the best. i mean, they are said stories – but fun to listen to.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- Bob Reed
  January 24th, 2010 - 12:54
  
  I wish you the best of luck in your search Miss. But speaking from the experiences of my youth, I had plenty of ex-girlfriends, graduates of Vassar, George Washington, Georgetown, Cornell, and a few other prestigious Ivy league or near Ivy-league institutions, that enjoyed the Freedom, and possibly arm trophy status, of dating a Naval Aviator, but who felt that my humble engineering education was sooooooo far below their liberal arts degrees that we were fundamentally incompatible in the long run…
  
  That, and they were generally unwilling to give up their vital internships and menial entry level prositions as study abroad program directors, or similar activities, to entertain the possibility of suffering the relocations that are real possibilities in the military lifestyle.
  
  And I will also say that my lovely wife, a very successful prosecutor in Queens, and a graduate of a very prestigious Manhattan law school, seems to have no problem with my self-employed pursuits, engineering, or former military background; and had I still been active duty would have had no problem relocating either; thank God though, for the sake of her elderly mother, that was a choice we weren’t forced to make.
  
  There are losers on both sides of the gender gap, but I ran into many well educated women that had taken on an effete and elitist air as a result of their education. I’m not saying that there aren’t some men who do so as well, but, the militant feminism encouraged at today’s universities seem to instill the both the attitudes of, “you can have it all!”, as well as “, “don’t settle for second best!”…
  
  With all due respect, and good wishes for your future…
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- g
  January 24th, 2010 - 13:02
  
  Gonna be blunt here:
  
  Stop dating for the sake of dating, especially on the internet. You’re hunting for a man, and in terms of good relationships, it is impossible to hunt them down. They come to you. Get away from the internet dating sites and join some online groups with people of similar interest.
  
  I met my fiance on the internet through an art appreciation website (deviantart, in point of fact) and we got to know each other through our mutual interests without the specter of “having to find someone” hanging over our heads. Neither of us were there to find someone, which is precisely why we found each other.
  
  It is my opinion that dating for the purpose of dating almost never works out.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- meep
  January 24th, 2010 - 14:09
  
  Trying to find a suitable man in NYC is just…really, really tough.
  
  I picked up my guy in NC before I moved to the city — I was extremely lucky, and I realize that. I think I would have dropped out of grad school much sooner, and I would’ve moved back to NC, if I didn’t have Stu.
  
  FWIW, both my sister-in-law and mother got themselves younger guys, even though they were past the magic age of 35 [in Raleigh]. As I said to Cool Hand — keep the hope alive! Best wishes on your search…
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- CoolHand
  January 24th, 2010 - 16:36
  
  No, the guy that called you ugly to your face wasn’t a “real man”, he was a childish asshole.
  
  Where in my diatribe did I ever once suggest that being rude to women was a trait inherent to real men?
  
  I didn’t.
  
  I lamented the fact that it seems women gravitate to guys who are assholes.
  
  Big difference.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- CoolHand
  January 24th, 2010 - 16:43
  
  OK, having read the rest of your post, I’m going to go ahead and call you a fan of hyperbole.
  
  Not one of the horrible people you’ve illustrated above are real men. They’re children playing at being men.
  
  I think your problem is not so much that real men are bad, but that you don’t really know what a real man IS.
  
  More an issue with definition and identification than anything else, me thinks.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- MikeO
  January 24th, 2010 - 21:17
  
  Ma’am (anonymous),
  
  A small hint: None of the seven you listed come anywhere near “real man” status.
  
  Wifebeaters, cheaters, druggies, and bastard-sires are nowhere near real men. Among the men I run with, these behaviors are shun-worthy.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Max Entropy
January 24th, 2010 - 12:52

Let me guess. She’s also a self-proclaimed gourmet cook and a connoisseur of fine wine. Does she drive a BMW or a Mercedes? She’s probably also got a yappy little dog that she treats like a spoiled child.
I know the type.
Almost nobody will meet her criteria. Those that do will not be interested in dealing with the nascissism.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
g
January 24th, 2010 - 12:57

Meep,

I think in modern society we often look at ancient cultures as uneducated and unintelligent, but when you take a good look at some of the practices – in any given facet of life – one begins to find practical reasons for these very practices.

I looked through the comments for information I suspected would eventually be revealed – that your husband is a good deal older than you – and behold a twelve year difference.

I am about to go into my second marriage to a woman who is fifteen years younger then me (39-24). I was the same age as my first wife and though there are a great many reasons why it didn’t work out, I believe part of it was the basic maturity level between the two of us. We’ve heard the girls mature much faster then boys, but are told that ends at adulthood. But what if that’s not the case? What if there are subtler, deeper, more emotional maturation that needs to occur in order for a man to be at the same level as a woman?

It seems to me the reasons men in so many ancient cultures for thousands of years married much younger women really wasn’t about patriarchal domination as we are told, but rather it was about the ability for a male to be in a place where he and his wife are on a more equal playing field on these deeper issues.

I know that at 39, I am much better equipped to handle a good, mature emotional relationship than I was when I was 25 (when I first got married). And yes, I know that many people who are married and the same age do make it work. But I think of all the marriages with age disparities (and there are more then five), among my friends and family and not one of them ended in divorce.

At 25, I was told quite a few times by my new wife that there were a few things I needed to work on in terms of my personality; things I needed to change about myself in order to grow. I tried to make these changes because I thought I was being a good husband. I have heard no such complaints from my current fiance, and I have given her several opportunities to make them freely and openly. In addition, I have heard from quite a few sources that women generally tend to be more satisfied with their husbands who are in their 30′s-40′s than they were with their husbands when they were younger.

I say all of this as pure speculation and opinion, and am not representing myself as some sort of relationship expert. but throughout history, in many different cultures, men did not marry until they were much older. This gave them time not only to establish themselves in terms of financial security, but I believe it allowed them to reach a level of maturity that a younger woman would not only appreciate, but respect (and I mean “respect” not in terms of subjugation, but in terms of genuine admiration. Men tend to equate that kind of respect with love.)

Finally, I suspect that in our increasingly matriarchal modern society, the demonizing of men who marry much younger women is the result of failed marriages with partners of similar age range…while at the same time, “cougars” are given the kind of open admiration that men in similar circumstances would be vilified for.

That, or I’m just a whiny guy.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- meep
  January 24th, 2010 - 14:14
  
  I didn’t realize Stu was that much older than me when we met [and actually, he thought I was much older, too] – it was pretty funny, because we both thought the other was in their mid-to-late 20s. We were both very wrong.
  
  But if you want to hear a fun age fact – my husband and my step-father are about two years apart in age.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
Alva Barno
February 23rd, 2010 - 16:32

I have been pursuing your web log for 10 days now and i should articulate i am starting to enjoy your post. How do i support to your web log?

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Dan Collins
  February 23rd, 2010 - 16:42
  
  I’d really prefer that you perused it.
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
- mariam
  August 6th, 2010 - 15:01
  
  Hello M Y Dear
  my name is miss. mariam i am a young beautiful girl with full of love and carely sexy also romantic,well i saw your profile today in this site and i love it,i think we can click together please i will like you to email back through my email adderss :(mariamabu14@yahoo.in) please i will like you to use your email adderss to contact me directly to my emailbox.at desame time i will show you my photo and you also know more about me.
  thank for your understanding.
  miss.mariam abu. (mariamabu14@yahoo.in)
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
  - Enoch_Root
    August 6th, 2010 - 15:39
    
    erm – JailBait Form-SPAM?
    
    Like or Dislike: 0 0
    ( REPLY )
fertility pharmacy
April 7th, 2010 - 14:54

So here I was looking for some good blog post about this issue . Searching in Google I managed to find this blog post. After reading this article I’m very happy to say that I have found just what I was searching for. I will make sure to bookmark http://powip.com/2010/01/a-good-man-is-hard-to-find/ and come back here more often . Thanks! :-)

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
- Enoch_Root
  April 7th, 2010 - 15:13
  
  i think there is a penis in it
  
  Like or Dislike: 0 0
  ( REPLY )
David
July 26th, 2010 - 17:23

The same for a good woman. especially here in the Los Angeles area.

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )
shane
March 4th, 2011 - 07:26

Cool Hand, you are awesome I really like your opinion

Like or Dislike: 0 0
( REPLY )